Following on from the previous post, here is an exact description of the symptom:
Symptoms:
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1) ignition on
2) switch to a non-park gear (in my case, REVERSE)
3) let go of brake , car starts moving slowly
4) there is a whirring sound from the engine compartment, and then ....
4) the the VDC OFF and SLIP lights both came on simultaneously
Here are the two lights in concern, that come on together on the dash:
Do I need to panic?
____________________________________________________
The car will remain driveable. So theres no need for immediate panic, ...
UNLESS you're driving in curvy rainy or snowy conditions. The VDC is "designed to help correct power from the engines and wheel braking to help your car go in the direction that you're steering it". In other words, it helps keep the car in your control. Most of the time with dry roads and if you play it at safe speeds, driving conservatively and without high speed turns or sudden changes in direction, you're safe.
Diagnosis:
____________________________________________________
Let's see what the Nissan rogue manual has to say about this symptom:
"When the VDC off indicator light and slip indicator light illuminate with the VDC system turned on, this light alerts the driver to the fact that the VDC system's fail-safe mode is operating"
That doesn't sound good! Ok but what about that whirring sound right before the light came on? Lets take a second look at the manual:
"The computer has a built-in diagnostic feature that tests the system each time you start the engine and move the vehicle forward or in reverse at a slow speed. When the self-test occurs, you may hear a “clunk” noise and/or feela pulsation in the brake pedal. This is normal and is not an indication of a malfunction."
There we go, my Nissan Rogue is experiencing a diagnostic failure or fault on ignition and initial movement, and is shutting down the VDC (the whirring sound) and signalling to me that i need to get the VDC or its components checked (the SLIP and VDC OFF lights together).
The Fix:
____________________________________________________
The bad news first: I haven't found and fixed the problem yet.
The good news: Theres lots of possibilities which look like cheap fixes that might be wrong, and I have not taken the car to a Nissan dealership yet where they have the tools to figure out exactly what is causing the VDC test to fail. I am leaving that as the last option.
What are some things people have done to fix this without pulling out diagnostic codes from the Rogue?
Ok let's take a look at what people out there have had success with in fixing this problem, which I have tried in succession to try and eliminate some simple possibilities:
1) Brake fluid is low:
The number one reason people seem to experience the VDC OFF and SLIP lights together is when their brake fluid levels are low. Hey wait a minute, I had this before! In that situation, top off the brake fluid to the MAX level, and then try your ignition and move the car again.
If this solved your problem, you should think about why your brake fluid was low. The brake reservoir and fluid system is self-contained, theres no place for the brake fluid to run off or get "used up". So if the brake fluid is low, this means that some of it went somewhere it wasnt supposed to. Possibilites are:
-Theres a leak in the brake fluid system. Press down fully on your brake when parked, and then examine the bottom of the car to see if you've "sprung a leak". Could be that something somewhere is perforated or needs repair where the brake fluid is leaking.
I checked the Rogue, there were no leaks.. so...
OR
-Brake pads or rotors are worn out. Turns out with worn out brakes, the brake piston which is fluid driven will move to compensate. This physically creates more space for the brake to fill up, which means you would see a lower level at the brake reservoir. You should probably have your brakes checked and replaced.
SINCE my brake fluid was low, I had my brakes checked out, turns out my rear brake pads and rotors were shot. I had both replaced.... but... still no luck with the VDC OFF and SLIP lights.
2) Problem with electrical circuitry - ie the Brake Lights in the back:
If your brake light is out or the circuitry is messed up and its malfunctioning, you should get that looked at, and the switch cleaned. I don't have this issue.
3) Sensors that feed the VDC self diagnostic are worn out / not connected well / cannot do their job right :
Unfortunately, theres no easy way to detect this one myself.
What stuff would the Nissan dealership do / can I just take it to some other mechanic?:
There is one basic problem with this VDC OFF and SLIP dignostic failure light condition - you can't pull VDC error codes out yourself using the generic scanners available on the market! You need a Nissan tool called the Consult III, along with (maybe) a proprietary connector, that can read the Nissan-custom codes off of the ECU (engine control unit), as this is specific to Nissan technology (VDC).
This was news to me, because I used to think you could pull all error codes! Because you don't expect any better, let me just confirm what you're already thinking - this tool is too expensive for the average joe, and the easiest place to get to this tool is ... at a Nissan dealership.
Let's say you go to a dealership and find out whats going on with the VDC during diagnostic failure. Theres one of two possible scenarios from this point onwards:
1) A sensor reading shows a problem.
This might be alright, maybe its the sensor itself thats screwed up, in which case either a fix or a replacment might get you back on your feet and out the door....
2) Failure somewhere else within the VDC system
I will update this blog if I find out more about this. But at this point you're probably looking at an expensive repair.
What makes this issue worse is that if you were to go to an unreliable mechanic, you might run into a PARTS CHANGER ie a mechanic whose first go-to is to recommend guesswork replacement and labor, instead of enough diagnostic to figure out exactly what the problem is. This is why I'm trying to avoid this option as long as I can, I simply don't know of any reliable mechanic worth his salt here yet.
... this will be continued once I head over to some place that has a Nissan Consult scanner. I'll keep you posted if I end up having to go directly to a Nissan dealer or elsewhere! Feel free to post comments if youve had this issue and have found a way to read the codes off.
Symptoms:
____________________________________________________
1) ignition on
2) switch to a non-park gear (in my case, REVERSE)
3) let go of brake , car starts moving slowly
4) there is a whirring sound from the engine compartment, and then ....
4) the the VDC OFF and SLIP lights both came on simultaneously
Here are the two lights in concern, that come on together on the dash:
Do I need to panic?
____________________________________________________
The car will remain driveable. So theres no need for immediate panic, ...
UNLESS you're driving in curvy rainy or snowy conditions. The VDC is "designed to help correct power from the engines and wheel braking to help your car go in the direction that you're steering it". In other words, it helps keep the car in your control. Most of the time with dry roads and if you play it at safe speeds, driving conservatively and without high speed turns or sudden changes in direction, you're safe.
Diagnosis:
____________________________________________________
Let's see what the Nissan rogue manual has to say about this symptom:
"When the VDC off indicator light and slip indicator light illuminate with the VDC system turned on, this light alerts the driver to the fact that the VDC system's fail-safe mode is operating"
That doesn't sound good! Ok but what about that whirring sound right before the light came on? Lets take a second look at the manual:
"The computer has a built-in diagnostic feature that tests the system each time you start the engine and move the vehicle forward or in reverse at a slow speed. When the self-test occurs, you may hear a “clunk” noise and/or feela pulsation in the brake pedal. This is normal and is not an indication of a malfunction."
There we go, my Nissan Rogue is experiencing a diagnostic failure or fault on ignition and initial movement, and is shutting down the VDC (the whirring sound) and signalling to me that i need to get the VDC or its components checked (the SLIP and VDC OFF lights together).
The Fix:
____________________________________________________
The bad news first: I haven't found and fixed the problem yet.
The good news: Theres lots of possibilities which look like cheap fixes that might be wrong, and I have not taken the car to a Nissan dealership yet where they have the tools to figure out exactly what is causing the VDC test to fail. I am leaving that as the last option.
What are some things people have done to fix this without pulling out diagnostic codes from the Rogue?
Ok let's take a look at what people out there have had success with in fixing this problem, which I have tried in succession to try and eliminate some simple possibilities:
1) Brake fluid is low:
The number one reason people seem to experience the VDC OFF and SLIP lights together is when their brake fluid levels are low. Hey wait a minute, I had this before! In that situation, top off the brake fluid to the MAX level, and then try your ignition and move the car again.
If this solved your problem, you should think about why your brake fluid was low. The brake reservoir and fluid system is self-contained, theres no place for the brake fluid to run off or get "used up". So if the brake fluid is low, this means that some of it went somewhere it wasnt supposed to. Possibilites are:
-Theres a leak in the brake fluid system. Press down fully on your brake when parked, and then examine the bottom of the car to see if you've "sprung a leak". Could be that something somewhere is perforated or needs repair where the brake fluid is leaking.
I checked the Rogue, there were no leaks.. so...
OR
-Brake pads or rotors are worn out. Turns out with worn out brakes, the brake piston which is fluid driven will move to compensate. This physically creates more space for the brake to fill up, which means you would see a lower level at the brake reservoir. You should probably have your brakes checked and replaced.
SINCE my brake fluid was low, I had my brakes checked out, turns out my rear brake pads and rotors were shot. I had both replaced.... but... still no luck with the VDC OFF and SLIP lights.
2) Problem with electrical circuitry - ie the Brake Lights in the back:
If your brake light is out or the circuitry is messed up and its malfunctioning, you should get that looked at, and the switch cleaned. I don't have this issue.
3) Sensors that feed the VDC self diagnostic are worn out / not connected well / cannot do their job right :
Unfortunately, theres no easy way to detect this one myself.
What stuff would the Nissan dealership do / can I just take it to some other mechanic?:
There is one basic problem with this VDC OFF and SLIP dignostic failure light condition - you can't pull VDC error codes out yourself using the generic scanners available on the market! You need a Nissan tool called the Consult III, along with (maybe) a proprietary connector, that can read the Nissan-custom codes off of the ECU (engine control unit), as this is specific to Nissan technology (VDC).
This was news to me, because I used to think you could pull all error codes! Because you don't expect any better, let me just confirm what you're already thinking - this tool is too expensive for the average joe, and the easiest place to get to this tool is ... at a Nissan dealership.
Let's say you go to a dealership and find out whats going on with the VDC during diagnostic failure. Theres one of two possible scenarios from this point onwards:
1) A sensor reading shows a problem.
This might be alright, maybe its the sensor itself thats screwed up, in which case either a fix or a replacment might get you back on your feet and out the door....
2) Failure somewhere else within the VDC system
I will update this blog if I find out more about this. But at this point you're probably looking at an expensive repair.
What makes this issue worse is that if you were to go to an unreliable mechanic, you might run into a PARTS CHANGER ie a mechanic whose first go-to is to recommend guesswork replacement and labor, instead of enough diagnostic to figure out exactly what the problem is. This is why I'm trying to avoid this option as long as I can, I simply don't know of any reliable mechanic worth his salt here yet.
... this will be continued once I head over to some place that has a Nissan Consult scanner. I'll keep you posted if I end up having to go directly to a Nissan dealer or elsewhere! Feel free to post comments if youve had this issue and have found a way to read the codes off.
Thank you so much, This is very helpful. I just got a Nissan Rogue S 2009, And its been 3 days now since i bought it. But yes I'm experiencing this thins too, But they said at the dealership its Normal. But when i was driving in Freeway it happens again and my speed is getting slow..so i have to pull over to the side to turn off the VDC..And it works. I don't know if its helpful or i need to get it repair. But i only had the car for 3 days and i dont wanna spend more money fixing it.
ReplyDeleteThank you for your comment!
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure what exactly your dealership is saying is "normal". If you don't see any warning lights but the car starts to decelerate on the freeway until you stop the car and turn off VDC, then the next question to figure out is - what activities cause this behavior. I would note what specific scenarios trigger slowing down. Some possible triggers: maybe beyond specific speeds; Maybe when you change lanes and accelerate; Maybe the RPM gets stuck at a certain number and even if you press accelerator it doesnt move beyond that until you stop the car and turn off engine; Maybe its only happens when its certain temperature ie a hot day; The best way is to verify is to actually reproduce the problem - try to repeat specific steps one by and and trigger the problem.
It sounds like you are experiencing "low power" or "reduced engine performance" mode, where the car deliberately puts the engine into fail-safe and disables any high acceleration.
I myself have been considering getting extended warranty but i have yet to come across a reliable nissan dealership or mechanic who has the tools to help.
I am also having problems with acceleration. When at a stop the car struggles to accelorate before it engages and accelerates normally. Once at higher speed, 75 mph, it began to decelerate on its own. The VDC and slip lights come on an off sporadically. Its a 2009 Rogue with 84,000 miles. Just had the fuel injection cleaned in case that was the problem. It helped short term and then back to having issues again...
ReplyDeleteSorry to hear about the stop to start acceleration issue, but more concerning is the deceleration after 75mph. Do you notice a pattern with the deceleration - does it decelerate to a certain speed, or does it feel like you just cant get the car to accelerate beyond 75mph?
DeleteThe VDC and slip lights coming on and off might indicate some sort of sensor problem in the car. While that seems like a very simple explanation, if you think about it sensors control how the car behaves under different conditions (since this car is pretty much a computer on wheels) - so if the sensors are dodgy or don't react well under certain conditions, it could be affecting what the computer decides to do with the car.
Curious - when you are stopped with the engine idling and have your foot on the brake, and change gears to Drive but keep foot on the brake, do you detect a delayed dull gear-shift kick?
Is there any reason I would turn off the VDC?
ReplyDeleteUnder most normal driving conditions, VDC should be left alone (in the ON position) - the car's computer will throttle engine power to wheels when it detects slip conditions and try to maintain stability. For example, you could be driving on a slippery road and changing lanes quickly, and one wheel might start spinning out of control. Normally people don't feel this happening and wouldnt take their foot off the gas pedal - however this could escalate into losing control of the car and feeling it drift. The VDC however can detect this with wheel sensors and will reduce engine power even if you have your foot on the gas pedal, maintaining stability.
DeleteHowever, if you needed full engine power, without the computer getting inthe way if it thinks your wheels are slipping (car stuck in mud is a good example, the wheels are spinning and potentially the car might think its slipping out of control) - then you can turn VDC off in order to try and get the car out at full engine power without VDC interfering. Hope that helps.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteMy vdc light and slip light always stays on when driving .When car is in park no light 2009 nissan rogue awd.
ReplyDeleteI added brake fluid and the lights dissappeared
ReplyDeleteThanks for sharing that its good to hear this was a solution, hopefully if its underlying some other readers situation they can check their fluid levels and try this first.
DeleteI have a 2010 Nissan Rogue and the light goes on and off on its own. When it does, I feel a little drag to the right, like the right front wheel is getting stuck.
ReplyDeleteMy mechanic changed the right front caliper, which had previously been changed about 2 years ago, but no luck. You hear a a metal rattle sound when it
gets stuck, the lights come on and then it feels like it releases again. Scanner shows nothing wrong.
Any more findings on this issue?
I don't think it's only an indicator sensor since I feel the behavior of the vehicle change; which is when I first start driving. The VDC and the slip lights come on right away. From there on it just goes on and off and sometimes I feel the car pulling to the right.